KV Thomas, minister for consumer affairs, food and public distribution, plans to take forward the national food security bill in the winter session of parliament. He is confident that India can and will implement the right to food. A relentless optimist, he dismisses surveys which paint a bleak picture of India’s food security and insists that conditions are much improved. Excerpts from the minister’s chat with Bhavdeep Kang:

Is India self-sufficient in food?
Why not? This year our production figure is 200 million tonnes (MT) of food grain, including 103 MT of rice and 95 MT of wheat. Of this, we have already procured 80.5 MT whereas our requirement for the public distribution system (PDS) is only 55 MT. That is why we have allowed export of food grains both under the general licence and central pool.

Even for the National Food Security Act (NFSA), we will need only 62 MT. The ministry of agriculture has given a 20-year projection of the amount of food grains and this will be sufficient for the PDS.

How can we claim to be food secure, when the availability of food grains in India is less than 200 kg per capita per year, as compared to 600 kg per capita in China and more than 800 kg per capita in the US?
We cannot compare India with other countries because food consumption habits are different. A number of different kinds of food are consumed in different places. For example, in Kerala, the staple is rice. But everywhere, food habits are changing.

But is this per capita availability of food adequate in terms of nutrition standards set by the World Health Organisation, National Institute of Nutrition and Indian Council of Medical Research?
Indian standards [of food consumption] cannot be compared to the world standards. I am not arguing that we have enough – we need more – but the position is good. It is much improved.

The per capita consumption of calories and proteins is falling. In the case of pulses, it is less than half what it was in the 1960s.

That is right. We have to give [to the needy] protein-rich food, like pulses and millets. Pulses production is low, that is why we are importing. We have to concentrate more on pulses. For this, we have different schemes, like in the northeast states and eastern areas. So, we are improving. We have to give additional food items which are more nutritious. For this, we have schemes like ICDS (integrated child development services) and mid-day meal and scheme for pregnant women.

But the availability of food per person is less today than it was in the 1960s or even the 1980s?
I don't trust such calculations. I have seen the situation. In Kerala, there used to be [people used to eat] one time rice, one time tapioca or even coconut cake. Those days are not there anymore. There is no starvation. Think of Bihar 50 years ago. Food consumption there also has gone up. Can you say the situation is not better? I have been around the country. Rural areas have improved. Earlier, there were only thatched houses. We don't see that any more. In Tamil Nadu, there were no toilets at one time.

I am a practical man. I do not go by calculations.

So you are saying there is no supply side problem?
Supply is a problem. Distribution also must be improved, purchasing power must be increased. What I am saying is that in the last 65 years, conditions have much improved, although population has grown from 40 crore to 120 crore.

What about the NFSA? What exactly are its objectives?
We will take it up in the winter session of parliament, as planned earlier. As per the proposed bill, each person who is entitled will get 5 kg of food grains per month. You see, there are two approaches. There is the targeted PDS which is not based on entitlements. It depends on availability of food grains. Then there is the lifecycle approach, that is the NFSA, which gives the right to food. It is a beginning. Nowhere in the world is there such a system for 120 crore people.

Five kg a month or 60 kg per year does not amount to even a third of the daily nutrition requirement for an adult. Does that mean this is an ‘adha pet’ scheme?
People are not depending on this (NFSA) alone. It gives a little relief. I am not claiming that people are living on it.

With the annual increases in the minimum support price (MSP) paid to farmers, the food subsidy bill also goes up. It is already close to 'one lakh crore. Is this sustainable in the long run?
The question is not whether we can sustain it. The question is whether we can stop the TPDS (targeted PDS). No government, no party can do that. In fact, state governments are further subsidising the food grains.

It's been said that by procuring such a large percentage of the available food grains, the government distorts the grain market. Does the scheme make economic sense?
Economists don't deal with the people. There is economics and there is the practical approach. We are bound to provide food to the people and we are bound to procure. Food Corporation of India has a dual responsibility, to procure and store as well as to distribute. If procurement goes down, what happens to the farmers? When the farmers who have grown the grain are waiting for you to procure, can you say no?

Are you in favour of direct cash transfer of food subsidies, linked with Aadhaar?
It has plus and minus points. It is still experimental. We have pilot schemes [on cash subsidy] but they have not been very successful. As for Aadhaar, it and the National Population Register (NPR) are basically for identification. They will take some time. So far the NPR has covered only about 10 to 20 percent of the people. I cannot wait for all of this to be completed before implementing the Food Security Act.

Reforms in the PDS are going on. By giving smart cards, already the number of ration cards has come down to 18 crore. Almost two crore bogus ration cards have been eliminated.

In your view, which is the best performing state in terms of the PDS?
I cannot say any state is better than another; they are all equal. I am like a father, I cannot choose between the children. Chhattisgarh has done well, so has Kerala. Andhra Pradesh has improved a lot.

Has pilferage from the PDS reduced?
From the FCI, pilferage is only 0.006 per cent, down from 2.5 per cent. This means that out of 80.5 MT, we will lose only about one lakh tonnes. About the state governments, I cannot say.

Do you think FDI in retail will bring down food inflation and will it have a positive impact on food security?
First of all, we have left it to the states to decide if they want it or not. But my personal feeling is that it will have benefits for farmers – and for consumers also. They will get good quality produce at good prices.

In vegetables and fruits we have 20 to 40 percent damage. This can be avoided with better cold storage. Also, prices will be less. There are seven levels between the consumer and the farmer. This can be avoided.

Many people in this sector, like small traders, may be affected. We have to think how to help them. I am heading the committee which is going into this aspect.

Food inflation and FDI in retail are not related. There are many factors affecting food inflation, like the global situation.

Are we certain that there will be investment in the back-end and not just in the front-end? After all, the problem is not building cold stores but having the power supply to run them.
They [the potential investors] are coming from far; they will not bring goods from there. Procurement has to be local.

Where is the link between FDI in retail and power supply? In any case, you need power, not just for cold stores. Anyway, let us not worry. It [FDI in retail] is an experiment, let us see what happens. When computers came, people reacted in the same way. They said the computers will create unemployment by replacing men with machines. Has that happened?
I am not a negative man. I can see that things are much better than in my younger days. Let us keep a positive attitude.